WE GIVE GREAT MEETING

People are always saying “Why isn’t advertising as good as it was?”
Personally I don’t:
a) have a clue
b) know if it’s true.
Maybe people always remember the old days as better.
But I just read an article on a New York blog and something went ‘ping’.
For the first time I thought “Yeah, that’s the reason. And I never spotted it.”
You can check out the whole post here: http://adaged.blogspot.com/2011/04/answer-to-question.html
The point he makes is that agencies used to be paid on commission.
You got a percentage of the amount of money that was actually spent on the advertising.
So you only made money on advertising that actually ran.
What happened was that agencies moved away from commission towards fees.
So agencies now get paid an amount every month, whether they run any ads or not.
They get paid according to the hours spent working on it.
Under a commission system, the incentive is to make advertising and run it.
Under a fee system, the incentive is to string out the process to justify the fee.
That means we have to do time sheets to prove how long we spent.
Not sales graphs to prove how well the ads work.
At the end of the year the client doesn’t say “Did the ad agency put sales up?”
They say “Did the ad agency justify all the hours charged?”
But surely advertising shouldn’t just be about book-keeping.
Albert Einstein said “Not everything that can be measured counts. And not everything that counts can be measured.”
Under the commission-based system the incentive was to run ads.
So that’s what we did.
And any advertising works better than no advertising.
So the advertising worked.
And the brains were focussed on what made money, so they made better advertising.
But now as soon as the advertising runs we stop making money.
Because we stop billing hours to the client.
Now we make our money on hours spent having meetings, doing research, debriefing research, travelling to meetings, having pre-meetings, all of it chargeable.
So the more the better.
This is like changing the rules of football.
So the object isn’t to score as many goals as possible.
The object is to take the longest time possible before eventually scoring a goal.
Then adding up how many people were involved, and how much time they spent, and increasing the goal’s value accordingly.
And the team that spend most time before scoring a goal wins.
It’s like judging a mechanic, not on how well or how quickly he fixes your car, but on how many meetings you have about it.
It’s like judging a doctor, not on whether they cure you, but on how many times they take your temperature and blood-pressure.
It’s like judging a meal, not on what it tastes like, but on how long and how many cooks it took to make.
It’s like judging a comedian, not on how much they make you laugh, but on how long they take to get to the punch-line.
It’s like judging an artist, not by the quality of the pictures they paint, but by how much paint they use.
It’s all about the process, not the actual result.

As my mum would have said “Penny-wise, pound-foolish.”

  • John W.

    My dad used to say to me “Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves” Used to drive me up the wall.
    I wish I could have retorted with your mum’s idiom.

  • Saman Mansourpour

    It was very simple when it was all commission Above the Line and no commission Below the Line. Then some smart spark decided to coin the term Through the Line just to confuse everyone, and at that point the transparent ways of making money seemed to go out the window.

    Unfortunately agencies now spend most their time untangling this web of spaghetti to eek a living. Not great for client, not great for agencies and not great for creativity and rubbish for the consumer. What we face now is how to quantify and charge appropriately for a great business changing idea, especially if it only took the creative director 10mins while sat on the loo.

    Econometrics and performance based campaigns are definitely the future, we just need to be able to accurately measure their performance. I suspect we’ll see far less hourly charging, and far more business changing ideas in the future, and by default far fewer mediocre agencies along the way.

  • Bob Maddams

    Dave, do you remember an ad in campaign of Peter Marsh (what do you mean rest of you, who he?) standing with his strong manly hands gripping a large 15% carved from stone? Not up to Colletts or BMP standards of the time I grant you but made the point that not all agencies were in favour of fees. I suspect though, whichever side of the debate you stood on, at the time it was about making more money than producing better ads. And the commission system also produced its fair share of dross I seem to remember – and it didn’t all come from ABM.

  • Kevin Gordon

    The rot began with clients griping on about agency commission. Then Agencies had to carry the cost of Media Independence. Almost everything became deal-led and not creative-led.
    Then the squeeze came.

    Production.
    How much?

    Creative.
    How Much?

    Photography.
    How much?

    Illustration.
    How much?

    Meetings.
    How much?

    Tea.
    How much?

    Biscuits.
    How much?

    Napkins.
    How much?

    Cleaner.
    How much?

    And the list goes on ad infinitum because
    analysis is paralysis.

    Many big clients paralysed the industry that is supposed to make them money by what was mentioned in a previous blog about strategy and function. They mistook the function as their strategy because they did not know how advertising works, and when they did, they thought they knew better than the experts, because they were the clients, and they were in charge of the money.

    Now they have no money.
    They’ve given all the fat to the accountants.
    Eventually their businesses will suffer and die.
    It doesnt matter so long as it’s accountable.
    Just sell it on as a big black hole.
    That’s why we’re in the mess we’re in today.
    Their functional strategy doesn’t work
    because it’s uncreative.

    The problem now,
    is there’s probably nobody,
    or very few people left who know how it should,
    can, and does work.
    And even less who can still do it.
    European law has ruined the fishing industry for decades.
    This is advertising’s equivalent,
    and it’s about as much use as a stultified perineum.
    How much is a great idea worth?
    You know.
    And so do I.

  • Saman Mansourpour

    This is an agency view I stumbled across on Twitter. What is interesting is that some people obviously don’t see the job of an agency as selling?? http://bit.ly/fbYDUY

  • Sam Jordan

    Surprisingly better economics would actually help i.e. aligning the incentives of the agency with those of the client. The old method was more ‘PBR’ than a lot of the new ones.

    Incidentally, your football analogy would appear to describe Arsenal.

  • Rob Mortimer

    The problem is that everybody wants to raise profit and cut costs. I bet few client finance directors would ever agree to the risk of a high payout even if that meant more effective ads.

  • Kevin Gordon

    Hi Rob,
    Dave’s just mentioned a good example on his CST site of what exactly happens when that is done. It’s a hell of a story.

  • Kevin Gordon

    Paperclips.
    How many????

  • Christmas Clarke

    Hourly rates! I got £5.93 but my employer put it up to £6 because he’s generous and it’s easier to work out the pay for us at the end of the week. I was offered a job in advertising. The pay was £0. It’s called internship.

  • Dave Trott

    Hi Christmas,
    The reason internship pays £0 is because it isn’t work, it’s training.
    Like a post graduate course: it might help you get a job, but it isn’t a job.
    You don’t get a wage from a university when you go there, in fact you have to pay around £8,000 (I think) a year.
    That’s why we don’t do internships at my agency.
    Students can’t actually do anything, they’re just a cost in terms or resource to supervise them.
    And the fact that it’s seen as cheap-labour makes it even less worth an agency’s time bothering with.

  • John W.

    Dave,
    Many students these days seem to dovetail their studies with part-time work. I would hazard a guess that placements don’t accommodate the financial plight of todays post grads. If advertising only gives a green light to the ‘mayfair’ set then it would seem it is failing in its duty to meritocracy.

  • Christmas Clarke

    Thanks Dave, you know that aint true but you tell it so convincingly you should go into advertising.

  • Malcolm Brown

    Very good I wish I could have written your article Dave.
    I also like the line ‘Creativity cannnot be measured in time’.

  • Dave Trott

    Christmas,
    Here’s what I know is true:
    Years back a young student, called Graham Fink, came to see me with a bad portfolio.
    I said “Come into the agency for two weeks and I’ll help you put a better one together.”
    Surely you wouldn’t expect me to pay him for that (although we did pay travelling expenses).
    I did the same with Alex Taylor, Steve Dunne, John Bedford, lots of others.
    Sometimes I’d say “How would you like to work on a real ad, if it runs you get it in your book?”
    Of course they all wanted that.
    But now students don’t want help working on their books, just doing real ads that run.
    Then they expect to be paid like a working professional for it.
    That’s why I don’t get involved in helping students anymore.
    What started as a philanthropic initiative is now perceived as cheap labour.

  • John W.

    Dave,
    Do you know if agencies offer flexible placements?
    Flexible placements that accommodate those that have to pay their way with part-time work until they get their ‘big break’.
    Do you you know what Nabs do on the matter?

  • Dave Trott

    John,

    A placement isn’t a job, and it isn’t money.
    So first you have to decide exactly what you want from a placement.
    Why would you want a placement at all?

  • Dave Trott

    John,
    Contact NABS yourself, that’s what they’re paid for.
    Call 0845 602 4497 or go here: http://www.nabs.org.uk/what.html

  • John W.

    Dave,
    I’d run through brick walls but this aint about me this is about advertising in general coming to terms with the realities of today. Not everyone is in the position of having a stable monied background to be available in the way that I’m sure you made yourself available back in the day. (I know you weren’t flush).
    Of course placements are only there to top up the apprenticeship. It’s all about the learning. No money should be exchanging hands.
    I’m questioning the powers that be that have reached a conclusion that those with part-time work in place aren’t somehow committed enough and somehow don’t warrant a placement. If advertising only fishes in one place…

    Thanks for the heads-up on Nabs. I’ve never been one for systems but I’m all for a system to be in place for others to benefit from.
    I hope Nabs get their balls busted on this issue.
    Now it’s over to all those grads out there who aren’t getting a run for their money.

  • Christmas Clarke

    Why do I feel like I’ve been told off?

  • Dave Trott

    John
    I’m not telling anyone off, but this isn’t the civil service it’s a creative business.
    We shouldn’t be asking what the limits are.
    It’s like asking the ref before a game “How many inches offside can I get away with?”
    Of course he’ll say none, but we all know that isn’t the way it plays out.
    The fun is what can you get away with, not what are you allowed to do.

  • Grilla Login

    I qualified @ the bar, can’t remember twitch 1, so if any1 feels they need representation here’s my number 000-000-000, do the funky lady

  • John W.

    Dave,
    I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating.

  • Kevin Gordon

    John,
    I never went to Art School.
    I never went to University.
    But I ended up as a Creative Director
    and I’ve got a degree.
    Dave’s talking about what Kevin Roberts calls
    Passion beyond reason.
    Crucifixion in part of the programme.
    You have to die for your work
    before you can be reborn.

  • John W.

    Kev & Dave,
    I understand the biz is 90% hard work.
    Work done the hard way – by sweat, application and craftsmanship.
    I think to be a good anything in this world means wanting to be that more than anything else.
    It means concentration of ambition, desire, and sacrifice. And the man or woman who accepts those terms can’t be ordinary, can’t be – just someone.
    Having said that I don’t think the ad biz should be just for those with deep pockets. The ad biz can do more…and deep down I think you guys all know it.

  • Jordan Kennard

    Dave, we aren’t all after money and work on big/real accounts when we go after internships. I’d love an opportunity just to sit in the corner and watch what goes on and I’m sure I’m not alone!

  • Kevin Gordon

    John,

    I wish I could show you how diabolical it is working for money in the great outdoors outside adland.
    It is dire.

    People overintellectualize everything now.
    You’re not allowed to point your finger at anyone.
    You’re not allowed to express an opinion.
    You’re not allowed to swear.
    You’re not allowed to raise your voice.
    You’re not allowed to express an opinion.
    You’re not allowed to be yourself.
    You are not allowed to have an emotion.

    It’s like sex without orgasm. Pointless.

    Say yes too much,
    you face redundancy.
    Say yes too little,
    you face redundancy.

    Nobody can understand why
    and everyone is sick to death of it.

    Most jobs today require no initiative.
    Most people are overeducated for the job they do.
    So they overintellectualize everything
    and cannot understand why they are dismayed.

    Universities used to teach you how to think.
    The subject never used to matter.
    I worked with a writer at Saatchis with a Masters in Anthropology from Cambridge.

    What has that to do with writing?
    Nothing.

    What has it to do with thinking?
    Lots.

    One very famous Creative Director came from
    an Auction House, and boy did he know how to sell!

    Now, students are multichannelled to think in a
    particular way according to the uni or college of
    media sudies before they even enter advertising.
    That means they are pre-programmed to fail
    unless they are prepared to accept the stark truth
    and tell themselves this simple fact.
    “I know nothing”

    Who wants to pay someone who thinks they know everything and knows nothing?

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